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Topic: Spare trains gathering dust in Oxford? Better use? (Read 3520 times)
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Graham Ellis
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Quote from Wikipedia: In addition First have been unable to obtain extra stock for local services, as the DfT is refusing to underwrite the additional leasing costs (as required under the franchise regime) after forcing the leasing companies to supply Pacers at a dramatically reduced rate for use on West Country branch lines. This is despite the failed attempt to operate Pacers on the sharply curved branches in the 1980s. It is likely that some Turbos will be put into store, having been displaced on longer runs by HSTs.I don't know the source / authority ... but is this suggesting that there's some spare trains of the type that form London - Oxford and London - Bedwyn services which are just going to be gathering dust next year? I wonder if there's any way heads could be knocked together to run a couple of them Oxford - Salisbury, via Swindon and Trowbridge ... |
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Lee
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You'd hope so wouldnt you , Graham. I have noticed something else from the Wikipedia link as well. "First Great Western inherited the small fleet of 7 two-coach Class 143 Pacer railbuses from Wessex Trains following the franchise merger in April 2006. They are currently used on suburban services around Bristol, but were to be moving to Exeter depot in December 2006 to operate the Exmouth, Barnstaple and Paignton 'Devon Metro' services. This appears to have been shelved as First Great Western will be recieving more units from Transpennine Express then previously thought. The current livery is an advertising livery for Bristol." This process of running down the Suburban Bristol rail services will begin in December 2006 with the transfer of 7 Class 143 units to Exeter depot to operate services on the Exmouth, Paignton and Barnstaple lines. These are likely to be replaced by the 7 remaining Class 153 units (not including the Southampton - Westbury shuttle ,which will run for 1 year only) , thus bringing a reduction in seating capacity from 104 seats per vehicle to 75 seats per vehicle. This will increase overcrowding , make revenue collection at peak times almost impossible , and force many passengers off the trains. This will also have a knock - on effect for the Exmouth , Paignton and Barnstaple lines. Class 143 units were occasionally used on rural branch lines but this was generally avoided where possible due to problems with wheel wear and the noise on sharp corners. The transfer of these units from Bristol to Exeter is apparently at the request of the Department for Transport , and no indication has been given as to how the problems with sharp corners will be overcome. This is likely to lead to breakdowns , cancellations and "revisions" (click on http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/melkshamrailway/138_Lies_damned_lies_and_statistics.html) . In turn , this will badly affect usage figures. The above is compounded by the fact that the Class 143 units currently being deployed on the Severn Beach line are close to expiry & collapse (link below.) http://www.fosbr.org.uk/Smoking%20train.htmIf the Class 143 transfer has indeed been shelved , then it would address one of my top concerns. |
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Lee
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Quote from Wikipedia: In addition First have been unable to obtain extra stock for local services, as the DfT is refusing to underwrite the additional leasing costs (as required under the franchise regime) after forcing the leasing companies to supply Pacers at a dramatically reduced rate for use on West Country branch lines. This is despite the failed attempt to operate Pacers on the sharply curved branches in the 1980s. It is likely that some Turbos will be put into store, having been displaced on longer runs by HSTs.I don't know the source / authority ... but is this suggesting that there's some spare trains of the type that form London - Oxford and London - Bedwyn services which are just going to be gathering dust next year? I wonder if there's any way heads could be knocked together to run a couple of them Oxford - Salisbury, via Swindon and Trowbridge ... The Turbo units that would be suitable for the service that you suggest are Class 166 units , Graham. Quote from the Greater Western Franchise Agreement : "6 x Class 166 vehicles may be returned to Angel Trains in December 2006, in which case the lease of those vehicles will terminate without their being subject to any substitution requirement. If and to the extent they are retained on lease by the Franchisee those vehicles will be treated as comprising Additional Rolling Stock Investment." This was agreed on the 6th June 2006. |
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Nick Field
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Graham did I hear you mention at one of the meetings that these 166 units wont 'fit' through Trowbridge station?
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Graham Ellis
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There was some talk along those lines, Nick, yes. It's not an easy "wll fit" / "won't fit" scenario, I don't think ... I learnt more about this later. It's that the Thames Turbos haven't actually been tried out on the route and they're slightly wider so they're not officially cleared, Trowbridge station being (it is said) the narrowest point. Real problem? Don't know!!
Although I suggested that the 166-s be used on Oxford / Salisbury, ther could be other alternatives that are multi-step offered by the extra stock availability. Or in plainer English, the 166-s could be used on a service where the line WILL take them, and release 158-s or similar for Oxford - Salisbury
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Lee
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Here are some interesting quotes : I cant believe that there arent some other DMU's that could be cascaded down for use on the former wessex routes, especially with all the new trains introduced across the country in the last decade
We were told on Saturday (Alison Forster) that they can NOT use the London suburban units north from Westbury as the clearances are all wrong at Trowbridge station "unless someone will pay for rebuilding the platform". Mind you, perhaps it might be cheaper / possible to slew the tracks over as it was broad gauge there at the start.
"First Great Western inherited the small fleet of 7 two-coach Class 143 Pacer railbuses from Wessex Trains following the franchise merger in April 2006. They are currently used on suburban services around Bristol, but were to be moving to Exeter depot in December 2006 to operate the Exmouth, Barnstaple and Paignton 'Devon Metro' services. This appears to have been shelved as First Great Western will be recieving more units from Transpennine Express then previously thought. The current livery is an advertising livery for Bristol." There was some talk along those lines, Nick, yes. It's not an easy "wll fit" / "won't fit" scenario, I don't think ... I learnt more about this later. It's that the Thames Turbos haven't actually been tried out on the route and they're slightly wider so they're not officially cleared, Trowbridge station being (it is said) the narrowest point. Real problem? Don't know!!
Although I suggested that the 166-s be used on Oxford / Salisbury, ther could be other alternatives that are multi-step offered by the extra stock availability. Or in plainer English, the 166-s could be used on a service where the line WILL take them, and release 158-s or similar for Oxford - Salisbury Maybe Trowbridge is indeed "worth a visit." After all , if the Thames Turbos haven't actually been tried out on the route , then how can Alison Forster say that the clearances are all wrong at Trowbridge station? |
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Lee
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This , however , is not the case on the Swindon - Didcot section , which would have to be traversed by any Salisbury - Oxford service. According to the proposed December 2006 timetable , an HST can do it in 17 minutes. Historical data suggests that a Class 158 or 166 unit would take 23 minutes to do it. That said , it may surprise you to learn that a path IS available for a Salisbury - Oxford service. Here is a link to the proposed December 2006 Didcot - Oxford timetable. http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Documents/Custom/Rev%20Dec%20TTs/SX%20-%20London%20to%20Outer%20Thames%20Valley.pdfThe following paths are feasible : Oxford xx00 - Didcot Parkway arrive xx11 , depart xx12 - Swindon arrive xx35 depart xx41 - Chippenham xx57 - Melksham xx08 - Trowbridge xx17 - Westbury xx23 - Dilton Marsh xx26 - Warminster xx31 - Salisbury xx50. Salisbury xx55 - Warminster xx15 - Dilton Marsh xx20 - Westbury xx23 - Trowbridge xx29 - Melksham xx38 - Chippenham xx49 - Swindon arrive xx05 , depart xx16 - Didcot Parkway arrive xx39 , depart xx40 - Oxford xx52. |
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Graham Ellis
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The following paths are feasible :
Oxford xx00 - Didcot Parkway arrive xx11 , depart xx12 - Swindon arrive xx35 depart xx41 - Chippenham xx57 - Melksham xx08 - Trowbridge xx17 - Westbury xx23 - Dilton Marsh xx26 - Warminster xx31 - Salisbury xx50.
Salisbury xx55 - Warminster xx15 - Dilton Marsh xx20 - Westbury xx23 - Trowbridge xx29 - Melksham xx38 - Chippenham xx49 - Swindon arrive xx05 , depart xx16 - Didcot Parkway arrive xx39 , depart xx40 - Oxford xx52.
What a hugely sensible service proposal. |
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Lee
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Thanks Graham. However , my preference would be for a 2 - hourly Southampton - Bicester Town service as detailed below : Southampton Central xx37 - Romsey xx49 - Dunbridge xx54 - Dean xx00 - Salisbury arrive xx13 depart xx15 - Warminster xx35 - Dilton Marsh xx40 - Westbury arrive xx44 depart xx45 - Trowbridge xx51 - Melksham xx00 - Chippenham xx11 - Swindon arrive xx30 depart xx33 - Didcot Parkway arrive xx55 depart xx56 - Oxford arrive xx09 depart xx11 - Islip xx24 - Bicester Town xx37. Bicester Town xx42 - Islip xx54 - Oxford arrive xx08 depart xx10 - Didcot Parkway arrive xx21 depart xx22 - Swindon xx45 - Chippenham xx01 - Melksham xx12 - Trowbridge xx21 - Westbury xx27 - Dilton Marsh xx30 - Warminster xx35 - Salisbury xx56 - Dean xx10 - Dunbridge xx16 - Romsey xx21 - Southampton Central xx32. This would be best interworked with a 2 - hourly Bristol - Bicester Town service using the same train path in the alternate hour as detailed below : Bristol Temple Meads xx45 - Bath Spa xx58 - Chippenham xx11 - Swindon arrive xx30 depart xx33 - Didcot Parkway arrive xx55 depart xx56 - Oxford arrive xx09 depart xx11 - Islip xx24 - Bicester Town xx37. Bicester Town xx42 - Islip xx54 - Oxford arrive xx08 depart xx10 - Didcot Parkway arrive xx21 depart xx22 - Swindon xx45 - Chippenham xx01 - Bath Spa xx13 - Bristol Temple Meads xx30. The Bristol / Southampton - Bicester services proposed above follow the same Bristol - Oxford service path that was recommended by Jacobs (pages 40 & 41 of the link below.) http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_foi/documents/page/dft_foi_612538.pdfIntroducing these services would also be a first step towards a fully - fledged East - West Rail service (link below.) http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/ |
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Graham Ellis
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This would be best interworked with a 2 - hourly Bristol - Bicester Town service using the same train path in the alternate hour as detailed below :
Indeed so ... in fact I think it would need to be interworked with a Bristol service as a train turning round at Bicester having arrived there from Southampton would collide head-on with the next train coming up around Lacock if it were to return to Southampton  |
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Lee
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The thought did cross my mind  |
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