Save the Train forum

Dedicate to campaigning to retain an appropriate "TransWilts" passenger train service ... Swindon - Chippenham - Melksham - Trowbridge - Westbury - Dilton Marsh - Warminster - Salisbury ... and to other services too

THIS FORUM IS NOW A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE. Please use our Coffeeshop Forum for new posts

link to main site
Save the Melksham Train

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
May 24, 2012, 05:39:57 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Recommended service - hourly, according to the GWRUS. Let's work towards that service and towards ensuring all services are used.
7889 Posts in 5009 Topics by 97610 Members
Latest Member: lacxxhqwvzp
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  Save the Train
|-+  General Discussion
| |-+  Greater Western
| | |-+  FirstGroup Profit Doubles on Rail , Bus Ticket Sales
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: FirstGroup Profit Doubles on Rail , Bus Ticket Sales  (Read 2578 times)
Lee
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3633


View Profile WWW
FirstGroup Profit Doubles on Rail , Bus Ticket Sales
« on: November 08, 2007, 10:40:48 AM »

FirstGroup said fiscal first-half profit more than doubled as sales of bus and rail tickets helped offset higher fuel costs (link below.)
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2007/11/firstgroup_profit_doubles_on_r.html#more

Logged
tonya
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 29


View Profile
Re: FirstGroup Profit Doubles on Rail , Bus Ticket Sales
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2007, 04:05:21 PM »

So much for any future excuses about not being able to afford more rolling stock. There is no excuse for any 2 coach trains with this amount of profit passing into their coffers.
Logged
Lee
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3633


View Profile WWW
Re: FirstGroup Profit Doubles on Rail , Bus Ticket Sales
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 10:02:04 AM »

So much for any future excuses about not being able to afford more rolling stock. There is no excuse for any 2 coach trains with this amount of profit passing into their coffers.

I am afraid that its not likely to get any better , tonya. See First Great Western Coffee Shop Forum quote below :

In a previous post on this forum it was quoted that there are diagrammed 2 158's for peak hour strengthening on the Cardiff - Portsmouth services.

Where do you put those 2 158's as the peak hours occur at Cardiff, Newport, Bristol, Bath, Trowbridge, Warminster, Salisbury, Southampton and Portsmouth and elsewhere that I omitted all at the same time. Do you attach an extra 158 to a service at Westbury so that it provides the extra passenger accomodation from Salisbury to Romsey, Southampton and Portsmouth and return to Westbury in the peak hour and then the second 158 to a service in the other direction at Westbury to provide the extra passenger accomodation from Bath to Bristol, from Bristol to Newport and Cardiff, from Newport to Cardiff. What about the Portsmouth and Southampton passengers at the beginning of the peaks, likewise passengers from Cardiff and Newport to Bristol, passengers from Bristol to Bath, from Bath to Trowbridge and Westbury.

Here is a list of services from the "Cross - Bristol" area that are due to be strengthened from December 2007. A couple of caveats :

1) The list is taken from the original draft December 2007 Timetable. As a result , the timings shown may differ slightly from the "final" version.

2) As martyjon rightly points out , sometimes extra carriages are added or taken off en route. Where this is due to be the case , I have noted it in brackets.

SERVICES DUE TO BE STRENGTHENED WITH A 2 - COACH CLASS 158 UNIT

0640 Frome - Cardiff Central (detached at Bristol Temple Meads.)
0723 Warminster - Great Malvern (attached at Westbury , detached at Bristol Temple Meads.)
0600 Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central (detached at Bristol Temple Meads.)
1222 Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central (attached at Bristol Temple Meads.)
1622 Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central.
2038 Westbury - Bristol Temple Meads.
0625 Westbury - Frome.
0545 Bristol Temple Meads - Weymouth / Portsmouth Harbour (split at Westbury.)
1230 Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour (attached at Bristol Temple Meads.)
1630 Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour.

SERVICES DUE TO BE STRENGTHENED WITH A 1 - COACH CLASS 153 UNIT

0540 Weymouth - Bristol Parkway (attached at Westbury.)
1704 Bristol Temple Meads - Bristol Parkway.
2130 Southampton Central - Bristol Temple Meads (Class 150 / 153 combo from Westbury onwards.)
0845 Bristol Parkway - Westbury (detached at Bristol Temple Meads.)
1648 Bristol Parkway - Westbury (attached at Bristol Temple Meads.)
1748 Bristol Parkway - Westbury (attached at Bristol Temple Meads.)

SERVICES DUE TO BE OPERATED BY A 3 - COACH CLASS 158 UNIT

0554 Bristol Temple Meads - Cardiff Central.
1122 Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central.
1922 Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central.
0730 Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour.
1530 Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour.

Finally , although I made the point that I did about the DfT and the Class 180 leases , I do actually agree with martyjon that FGW should be allowed to deploy them. See quote below :

He wasn't asked (and didn't offer comment as far as I could tell) what will be happeneing to the 200andsummat seat trains when replaced by the 500andsummat seat ones. I had a dream that they could in turn replace the 150orso seat trains that are full to bursting point on Cardiff - Portsmouth, and then those 150orso seat trains could strengthen other services, provide appropriate extras and help Andrew deliver that improved reliabiity by having just 1% more slack in the system. I expect there's no substance in my dream - are the Adalentes off to some other pastures in the North of England, by any chance?

Here is a link to the probable forthcoming rolling stock deployment , based on the unit number codes used by FGW in the Draft December 2007 Timetable.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=660.msg2347#msg2347

How about this instead?

Class 143/1 - Bristol - Avonmouth / Severn Beach services.
Class 143/2 - Bristol - Avonmouth / Severn Beach services.
Class 143/3 - Weston - Bristol Parkway services.
Class 143/4 - Southampton - Cheltenham group services.
Class 143/5 - Peak Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 143/6 - Bristol - Avonmouth / Severn Beach services.
Class 143/7 - Weston - Bristol Parkway services.

Class 150/1 - Southampton - Cheltenham group services.
Class 150/2 - Southampton - Cheltenham group services.
Class 150/3 - Peak Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 150/13 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 150/14 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.

Class 153/8 - Southampton - Cheltenham group services.
Class 153/9 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.

Class 158/1 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/2 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/4 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/5 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/6 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/7 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/9 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/10 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/11 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/12 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/13 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/14 - Westbury - Gloucester group services.
Class 158/15 - Taunton - Cardiff services.
Class 158/16 - Taunton - Cardiff services.
Class 158/17 - Taunton - Cardiff services.
Class 158/18 - Taunton - Cardiff services.
Class 158/19 - Marked as "not used."
Class 158/20 - Taunton - Cardiff services.
 
Class 158 (3 - coach) - Westbury - Gloucester group services.

Class 180/1 - Portsmouth - Cardiff services.
Class 180/2 - Portsmouth - Cardiff services.
Class 180/3 - Portsmouth - Cardiff services.
Class 180/4 - Portsmouth - Cardiff services.
Class 180/5 - Portsmouth - Cardiff services.
Class 180/6 - Portsmouth - Cardiff services.
Class 180/7 - Portsmouth - Cardiff services.
Class 180/8 - Portsmouth - Cardiff services.

This could provide the following benefits :

SERVICE IMPROVEMENTS

- 2 - hourly off - peak (rising to near - hourly peak) Westbury - Swindon services , with early morning , evening and optimally - timed peak trains restored.

- Half - hourly Bristol - Severn Beach services.

- Half - hourly Bedminster , Parson Street , Severn Tunnel Junction and Weston Milton services.

- Same number of Dilton Marsh services as now , but pattern revised to more closely match traffic flows , especially at the peaks.

- Through services between Dean and Mottisfont & Dunbridge - Warminster , Dilton Marsh and Westbury retained , along with easier northbound connections.

ROLIING STOCK PROVISION IMPROVEMENTS

- 5 - coach (including first class) Portsmouth - Cardiff services.

- 4 - coach Westbury - Gloucester group services.

- All Taunton - Cardiff services operated by Class 158 units.
Logged
Graham Ellis
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2062


View Profile
Re: FirstGroup Profit Doubles on Rail , Bus Ticket Sales
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2007, 10:56:09 AM »

So much for any future excuses about not being able to afford more rolling stock. There is no excuse for any 2 coach trains with this amount of profit passing into their coffers.

The problem is, Tony, that  FirstGroup is committed to "at least 10 percent annual dividend growth for at least the next three years,'' the company said in the statement., that they're committed to paying over a billion pounds - 32% of their current market valuation - to the DfT for the current FGW franchise alone, mostly in the latter years so they need to be saving,  and that the current lease cost of an old 2 coach train that originally cost 100,000 to build is 300,000 per annum
Logged
tonya
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 29


View Profile
Re: FirstGroup Profit Doubles on Rail , Bus Ticket Sales
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2007, 06:56:44 PM »

I am trying to understand - not very successfully- from the list which trains will lose coaches, rather than remain the same or have an extra coach or two. Can that be predicted? Are we going to be back to leaving people standing at Oldfield Park and Keynsham again?
Logged
Lee
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3633


View Profile WWW
Re: FirstGroup Profit Doubles on Rail , Bus Ticket Sales
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2007, 02:59:33 PM »

I am trying to understand - not very successfully- from the list which trains will lose coaches, rather than remain the same or have an extra coach or two. Can that be predicted? Are we going to be back to leaving people standing at Oldfield Park and Keynsham again?


Its funny you should ask , tonya , because Andrew Griffiths was "interviewed" on related issues recently (see First Great Western Coffee Shop forum quote below.)

Q) I have now obtained the printed Dec 07 timetables & the errors on the on-line version which I identified were perpetuated there. According to the XC timetable, the 0800 from Temple Meads starts Cardiff 0700, dep Newport 0715. Although FGW timetable E omits this, the equivalent XC evening return arr Cardiff 20.19 is correctly shown.

AG) This will have to be added to the addenda for Book E - poor proof reading I'm afraid.

Q) On 28 NOVEMBER 2006, Tom Harris the Minister for rail transport detailed (to the Western Partnership) the improvements required to address reliability problems with the ex Wessex "local fleet" (including Cardiff -Portsmouth) which included modifications to the electrical systems, doors, underframes, engines, transmissions, couplings, air systems, engine cooling systems and brakes. At that time the new maintenance depot at St Phillips Marsh for the local fleet was (at least publicly) expected to be imminently open.
 
On 3 March 07 at SWPTUF in Taunton, Glenda Lamont said that FGW were strengthening the depot Management Team & working day shifts to catch up at the new Bristol local fleet Maintenance Depot. However, she failed to admit that the building housing the new depot was still very incomplete !! The welcome to FGW's "Updated Timetable E - 10 Sept to 8 Dec 07" included" We are about to start the refurbishment of our "West" fleet to provide greater comfort for our passengers and better reliability -which means better punctuality. " Begs some questions - WHY THE DELAY IN IMPLEMENTING MAJOR MECHANICAL OVERHAULS WHICH WERE RECOGNISED AS NECESSARY A YEAR AGO?

AG) The only delay is the franchising process - if Wessex had continued as originally set up then it is probable the fleet refurb would have been complete by now.  FGW could not start the detailed tendering process until last April, and did start it then.  It takes 18 months to agree the very detailed spec and get space in the busy rail workshops production lines.

Q) WHAT IS THE STATE OF THE LOCAL TRAINS MAINTENANCE DEPOT IN BRISTOL ?   

AG) The contractor went into liquidation, and this coupled with problems about buried cables meant the work was delayed a further 9 months - now due next May.  This is the 'Routine Servicing Shed' and 'Underframe Cleaning Shed'.  All the rest done by last summer.  There is another underframe pit on site, which we hire access to, and routine checks are done in the maintenance sheds; not ideal, but no more than an irritation.  The depot has been 100% functional since last December.

Q) Refresh programme
What is the timetable for
class 158 to Doncaster
class 150
class 143
class 142
(one car) class 153?
Where are each class being sent (& why there) & what is being done to each class?

AG) The programme was £1m in scope but is now £10m, comprehensive internal refit and a long list of reliability improvement mods 'under the bonnet'.  2nd 158 due out now from Doncaster, 1st 150 due out now from Cardiff.  1st 153 is at Eastleigh.  143s will follow the 150s through Cardiff.  142s will receive a mini-refresh at Exeter depot (but NB we have yet to even see most of them yet).

Q) Will sufficiently clear large cycle pictograms be visible as trains approach & when the doors are open to speed loading ?

AG) I will check, but modifying even a simple sign like this requires VAB (vehicle authorisation board) approval, and can take weeks.

Q) Have cyclists (& cycling organisations like CTC) been adequately consulted ?
 
AG) Even £10m does not buy a redesign, even if that was structurally possible, so little to consult on.  Customer Panel members were party to the HST work and I believe the units too.

Q) Is it true that clapped out FGW class 158s are being swapped for clapped out northern class 142s ?

AG) 10 158s go off lease in December and will go to Northern.  We would have liked to have kept at least some, but were not allowed.  In return we get 12 142s subleased from Northern.  These will work off Exeter (Exmouth-Barnstaple-Paignton), displacing 150s and 158s to Bristol.  We have also secured an extra 2 150/1s formerly of Silverlink, to bolster the Bristol fleet

Q) Are these travelling on rail or are they so "clapped out" that they have to go by road ?

AG) First two arrived under their own steam!

Q) If so - why swap over "clapped out" trains ?
 
AG) This was not our choice. 

Q) Where bikes are expected to be stowed in a "metal sided broom cupboard with a narrow entrance" are the metal sides being stripped out like the Trans Pennine ones which are already here?
 
AG) Yes.   

Q) Reliability
Performance percentages alone give no indication of the reasons

More detail regarding the delays & cancellations would assist in providing some reassurance that the underlying causes have been recognised & are being addressed.
e.g
whether some "rogue trains" are particularly susceptible to delays & cancellations. How significant are rogue trains?

whether some specific trains (day/time) are particularly susceptible to delays & cancellations. What are the reasons for these repeat culprits?
 
for some local services, the turnround times are so tight that the same train cannot recover from delays. However, another train sometimes can. How often is the real cause of delays/cancellations the cumulative result of the same train being delayed earlier in the day or by an ongoing incident ?   

AG) Impossible to answer simply.  Every train is monitored and every delay minute analysed and attributed to a responsible manager.  Some services are worse than others, and these receive the greatest attention.

Q) Staff issues
Frequently "local trains" are cancelled or delayed because of staff problems.

Particularly on Saturdays, trains are often cancelled due to staff shortage - either because there are no staff for the shift or because the "booked staff" have been delayed e.g. on an incoming train/taxi. This has been happening for so long. Clearly the shifts are not sufficiently robust. Begs the question - What are FGW doing about this & when will improvements be seen ?

AG) Short answer is that 60 extra drivers and 40 extra conductors are being recruited, as well as more traincrew managers to reduce the manager/staff ratio.  The efficiency of rostering is being re-evaluated, and the aim is to get away from having to cover work by drafting in crews from other depots.  Bristol has been affected by this, together with higher than forecast illness.   

Q) Rescuing stranded passengers
 
Wessex trains sometimes sent taxis to "sweep up" stranded passengers.

Why cannot FGW (2 or 3 passenger counts under FGW means it should be easy for FGW to guestimate the number of probable passengers affected at each station whenever a service is seriously disrupted) ? British Rail & Wessex Trains had a rule - the heavily used "school trains" had priority to "run if possible". Do FGW have an equivalent (together with a back-up plan to deal with unavoidable cancellation of busy trains & placating "heavy user" schools & major employers/colleges) ?

AG) There is a very detailed contingency plan which is constantly refined and improved.  Taxis or buses are sent if a gap of over an hour is likely (and if the road transport will get there in time before the next train)

Q) When will the FGW unstaffed stations including ones in the Bristol area receive information screens & two-way communication (which do not depend on traveller's mobile phones)?

AG) All stations will get a 'Help and Information Point', with push-button contact to a human operator, within the next year or so.  Severn Beach line sooner than that, of course.   

Q) Timetable issues
Robust Dec 07 timetable. Why was "work in hand" so late ? Are FGW confident that they will have the working trains, capacity, staff & paths to operate a more robust service than hitherto on long distance & local services ?
 
AG) Yes.  Greater robustness in the Dec 07 timetable is essential.

Q) Stapleton Road & Lawrence Hill

It is understood that it was intended that the Gloucester/Bristol Parkway to Weston "stopping trains" would stop at Stapleton Road & Lawrence Hill from Dec 07. However, Network Rail had pathing issues. Generally the best compromise possible is:- Gloucester to Westbury & Westbury to Cardiff stop at Stapleton Road & Lawrence Hill. In Dec 06 there was imbalance between capacity (especially from local stations Westbury/Bath, Oldfield Park & Keynsham) to Bristol Temple Meads & Filton Abbey Wood in the morning & in the reverse direction. Are there similar inconsistencies in the Dec 07 capacity? Will there be a more consistent stopping pattern at Stapleton Road & Lawrence Hill in May 08 & Dec 08?

AG) Yes.  Greater consistency in the Dec 07 timetable is the aim.  SR and LH calls should be in the Weston-Parkway service, this is the aspiration.

Q) Severn Beach Line
There are issues re enhanced frequency service which Bristol City Council budgeted for but which FGW claimed they could not deliver. How much of this was due to path problems?

AG) Pathing has proved extremely challenging.

Q) The 7.37 from Temple Meads to Avonmouth skips through Lawrence Hill & Stapleton Road. It is understood that this is due to a preceding Portbury - Washbrook freight train. This begs some questions & general timetabling questions. Will the freight train actually run (or is it a phantom train which might run sometimes)? Why does a trainload of imported cars take precedence over a suburban passenger train?
This "car train" of empty cars potentially impacts:-
Trains from Weston & beyond between Parson Street & Temple Meads

Trains between Temple Meads & Narroways junction

Trains up Filton Bank between Narroways junction & Filton Abbey Wood/ Bristol Parkway
 
Trains at Bristol Parkway

Trains between Bristol Parkway & the Midlands

Why does it have to run at a time which conflicts with passenger train(s)?

AG) Every rail operator book paths (and NR adjudicates).  No one operator has priority over another. There is an annual conference where the train planners get together and thrash out almost all issues amicably. The freight paths through Bristol are very limited.

Q) Presumably special rules apply to Royal trains, dangerous goods & excursion trains. Is there a hierarchy of trains for timetable & operational purposes e.g.
Cross Country
HST
long distance "local"
stopping local
"perishable" freight
"strategic" freight like power station coal trains
non-perishable freight
ECS - empty coaching stock ?

AG) Each operator will have their own priorities, but not as clear as the BR hierarchy you list.

Q) There were some anomalies in the "final" Dec 07 timetables online. Were these identified & corrected before the timetables were printed? XC - The Dec 06 morning train from Cardiff had stops at Severn Tunnel junction (specially belatedly included after great furore) & other "local stations" to provide peak-time capacity. The Bristol Temple Meads northwards timetable showed a Cardiff origin. However, the "stopping service from Cardiff" to Temple Meads was not shown !

AG) Slipped through the net.

Q) Severn Beach line - The  2119 from Temple Meads is headed starts at Cardiff. Instead it should be footed as continuing to Cardiff. The 1825 arrival at 1825 at Temple Meads correctly shows Bristol Parkway as its start. However, it should also be footed as continuing to W-s-M.

AG) Will check on this

Q) Short platforms symbol - why Yatton which is currently long enough for HSTs?
 
AG) No it isn't.

Q) Keynsham Rail summit
From the Keynsham rail summit we were expecting capacity at local stations to be improved by having HST London trains stopping at Oldfield Park, Keynsham & Worle once selective door opening was introduced. Worle has some. Keynsham has 8.09 heading for Bristol with no evening equivalent ! Oldfield Park has none.   

AG) All peak time HSTs call Worle.  Keynsham and Oldfield proved problematic to fit these calls in.  Two 143+143 West services are going over to 150+158 so there will be extra capacity.

Q) Are we approaching another December rail crisis ?
 
AG) No!!.
Logged
tonya
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 29


View Profile
Re: FirstGroup Profit Doubles on Rail , Bus Ticket Sales
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2007, 08:16:50 PM »

Thanks Lee.
Not much grounds for optimism there then.
More Train less Strain was never just two or three people, but a movement by commuters to get things moving again. It was a reaction by the travelling public to a chronic service. I am sure all travellers will be watching the new changes with a mixture of anxiety and trepidation.  If it is a replay of last December, there will, I am sure, be a demand from local commuters for organised action once again, as this seemed to produce results last time around.
I am not too optimistic that things will go smoothly, but am willing to give them a chance and see what happens. They have after all, had a year to get it right this time.Wont hold my breath though.
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Save the Train | Powered by SMF 1.0.5.
© 2001-2005, Lewis Media. All Rights Reserved.
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.097 seconds with 19 queries.