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Topic: Save money - change at Bath (Read 3919 times)
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Graham Ellis
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I am crossposting this from elsewhere ... it stuck me that I may have not described this little gem here in the past
There are TWO different fares / routes from Swindon to Salisbury - Any route and "Via Bath" - and via Bath is cheaper - much cheaper.
So if you're at Swindon at 18:30 tonight and want to travel on the 18:42 to Westbury and change there for Salisbury, you'll pay 30 pounds for a saver single (the ordinary single is 41.50). But if you travel - say - on the 19:30 and change at Bath, the fare for an ordinary single comes down to just 18 pounds.
If I was a believer in conspiracy theory, I could suggest that these fares / routings are designed to pull people avay from the "via Melksham" route. Personally, though, I think it could be something that's just come about ...
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Graham Ellis
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Perhaps I should add that if you want to travel on the 18:42, you can get a cheap day single to Westbury for 10.60, then pay 8.70 for a regular single to Salisbury - so that's 19.30 rather that 30.00 if you book a through ticket. But beware - although it's perfectly legitimate for you to buy split tickets provided the train you're using stops atthe splitting station, the booking staff will not offer you such an option even if you ask them for "the lowest cost way I can get to Salisbury using this train" - you have to know
Footnote - as far as I'm concerend, there's something of a moral argument as to whether I should publicise split fair options or not. In a case such as this, where the standard single via the direct route is over twice the price of a ticket via Bath, I feel that publicity for alternatives to what I regard to be an excessive fare is valid.
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James
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What would be so wrong about posting fare tips, not our fault there is such big loop holes in the system!
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Regards
James - Full on Pacer Fan
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Graham Ellis
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What would be so wrong about posting fare tips, not our fault there is such big loop holes in the system!
Because part of what I (personally) want to achieve is a rail service that works for everyone - for the TOC, for organisations that provide subsidy (if any), and for customers. I'm very much aware that the current rate (standard ticket) is about 20p per mile from Melksham to Swindon, but is about 50p per mile from Swindon to London. And that a fare increase from 20p per mile to (say) 30p per mile on the Melksham to Swindon section would LARGELY REMOVE the need for subsidy. So that in that instance, heavy use of a fare saving technique, which is clearly operating against the intent of the planners who set the fare in the first place may also significantly weaken the financial case for the restoration of a decent service. |
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tramway
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Perhaps I should add that if you want to travel on the 18:42, you can get a cheap day single to Westbury for 10.60, then pay 8.70 for a regular single to Salisbury - so that's 19.30 rather that 30.00 if you book a through ticket. But beware - although it's perfectly legitimate for you to buy split tickets provided the train you're using stops atthe splitting station, the booking staff will not offer you such an option even if you ask them for "the lowest cost way I can get to Salisbury using this train" - you have to know
Footnote - as far as I'm concerend, there's something of a moral argument as to whether I should publicise split fair options or not. In a case such as this, where the standard single via the direct route is over twice the price of a ticket via Bath, I feel that publicity for alternatives to what I regard to be an excessive fare is valid.
Don't worry Graham, Barry Doe's artciles in Rail magazine concerning how to get cheap travel made Hansard. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm061107/halltext/61107h0007.htmIf you haven't looked at Doe's pages they will give some indication of the options to look at before even considering going anywhere near a booking office. A classic, although this may not still be the case, was it was considerably cheaper to but tickets starting at Castle Carey to Paddington, than from Westbury. I haven't had the opportunity to check the current situation. |
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courgettelawn
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50p a mile! You could get a taxi for that.
The problem, as I see it, is that train companies have become too used to turning over large profits on the basis of their subsidies and the near monopolies they have on the lines they operate. Even if the planners did want to reduce 'reliance' on subsidies by allowing 'commercially-based' setting of fares, it would not actually improve a) the service or b) the numbers travelling by train rather than road, especially for shorter journeys. Rail employees enjoy high salary levels compared to many other professions and I can't see a reduction in their salaries in real terms being an option. Therefore the profits turned over for the benefit of directors and shareholders must be capped in some way or the planners should seriously consider instituting non-profitmaking train companies to run our regional services.
Why not use the principle of the mutual building society? The service is run for the benefit of passengers and it is _they_ who share in the profit _and_ get a direct say in the direction of the company.
The current system is never going to be workable for the benefit of passengers current and future. This is at the heart of the matter, the current system and strategy just does not work and will not ever work in its current form.
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Graham Ellis
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50p a mile! You could get a taxi for that.
A lot our our international customers have abandoned the trains completly since the December timetable change ... rather than travelling by public transport to Melksham from the airport, they're now getting a taxi all the way. We can provide a prebooked taxi from Heathrow to Melksham for 75 pounds, and another 75 for the return journey. It's not green, it's not logical - but it is damned convenient to be met off your plane and if there are two or three of you it is CHEAPER that going by train. The economic cases that I have seen being made concerning the "TransWilts" service all take the line in isolation, but I do wonder just how much knock-on effect there has been elsewhere. I've not seen any case studies that have made any allowance for the loss of connecting income when consider the TransWilts ... and yet we all know what a high proportion of the business the line used to do was NOT made on journeys purely made on teh line. Moving on to comment on your other points concerning re-organisation. I attended a very interesting talk by Chris Green a couple of weeks ago, and he was taking us through the trough of many re-ogansiations in the last 20 years. The current system, agreed, is not idea but Chris (who is highly respected) was reconning on it being around 80% right and suggesting that the best way forward would be to tackle only the other 20%. I fear anotgher major re-arrangement would cost a huge amount of money, would rock the boat yet again, and might be less acceptable than some incremental changes. But this is a topic where you can ask 20 people and get 25 different opinions expressed! |
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Ruthg
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I was looking for ticket options on the internet yesterday for Frome - Bath Spa, going out yesterday and coming back today. National Rail Enquiries showed I could get an Open Return for £8.70, FGW did not give an Open Return as an option, only 2 singles at £7.30 each.
Like Graham I'm feeling slightly suspicious as to why this should be, does anyone have an answer? I can't think of one other than the local bus run by FGW is £5 each way and they might like us to use that instead!
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« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 01:07:11 PM by Ruthg »
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Trowres
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Ruth, I tried www.nationalrail.co.uk and could only find the single fare from Frome to Bath. Strange if it gave you an open return... Next thing to try was Castle Cary-Bath. This has: Open single: £9.80 Saver Return £13.50. You are not supposed to break an outward journey on a Saver ticket, so this isn't really valid from Frome (although it would be OK on the way back. Oddly, NationalRail also listed under "Advance" fares a Business Saver Return for £17.00. Click on the link and it will tell you it's a turn-up-and-go GNER fare. Something wrong with the system, I think... |
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Trowres
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Ruth, This one is quite entertaining... As you say, a Single from Frome to Bath is £7-30. However, a Single from Frome to Chippenham is £6-70...via Bath, and you may break your journey at Bath. Not a big saving, but another gem of doing this (someone may like to confirm), is that the computer system that allocates ticket revenues will donate some of your fare to the account of the Westbury-Swindon service.  |
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Trowres
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I've not seen any case studies that have made any allowance for the loss of connecting income when consider the TransWilts | Not like you to miss something like that, Graham |
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Ruthg
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I tried www.nationalrail.co.uk and could only find the single fare from Frome to Bath. Strange if it gave you an open return...Something wrong with the system, I think... I think you might be right, I've just re-queried Frome-Bath Spa and that Open Return option has disappeared.  Thanks for the Chippenham tip.  |
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« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 10:02:33 AM by Ruthg »
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Graham Ellis
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I've not seen any case studies that have made any allowance for the loss of connecting income when consider the TransWilts | Not like you to miss something like that, Graham |
I wouldn't say I "missed" it as such ... I'm just not sure how I could evaluate the figures and come up with reasonable estimates. Let me show you what I mean ... """If 15% of the 110,000 journeys were long distance ones that were lost to the railway when they TransWilts service was cut right back, and each of those journeys had brought the railway 50 pounds of income, then the loss to the railway as a whole was a staggering 425,000 pounds."""There are immediate arguments: a) What proportion of journeys WERE long distance (from talking to travellers on the services that I used the most, around 30%) b) What was the average cost of such a journey? (I have taken a London single fare - many were lower and some would have been much higher; I'm comfortable with, but cannot prove, my figure). c) What proportion of people did abandon the train completely? (I have said about a half. That's a cautious figure when I look at our own customers - it's dropped from 40% arriving by train to an OCCASIONAL arrival by train. Lots more cars, international guests now using taxi all teh way from the airport) d) Is it legitimate to stack up the whole lost fare against the TransWilts service? (That's a tough one. I suggest that it IS acceptable to account in this way in the short term, as there's no suggestion that there was any financial saving made by the railways because they didn't have to carry the passengers the rest of the way. In other words, the passengers who no longer travel have left empty seats / empty standing space in the trains). Now if we could persuade FGW to take a look at these figures, they might see a commercial case for the "TransWilts" service. But alas, at a board meeting the advocate for the case would be wide open to suggestions of "no proof" and "conjecture" I fear. Do you have any thoughts on the assumptions I have made? |
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tramway
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If you haven't looked at Doe's pages they will give some indication of the options to look at before even considering going anywhere near a booking office. A classic, although this may not still be the case, was it was considerably cheaper to but tickets starting at Castle Carey to Paddington, than from Westbury.
I haven't had the opportunity to check the current situation.
I came across the article I was thinking about in a February edition of RAIL. "Annual season ticket from Westbury to London £7,024 standard, £12,996 first. Those from Castle Cary £5,828 and £10,780 first! I sincerely hope nobody ever buys one from Westbury" Perhaps an opportunity for a seperate forum to post info on this sort of thing for all to share. |
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