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Recommended service - hourly, according to the GWRUS. Let's work towards that service and towards ensuring all services are used.
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Author Topic: Dft boss shows his true colours  (Read 2269 times)
Steve35
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Dft boss shows his true colours
« on: January 17, 2007, 07:57:54 PM »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=BJG0PB0YPTBFVQFIQMFCFF4AVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/01/17/nrail117.xml

Rail chief tells commuters they must stand

By Sally Peck and agencies
Last Updated: 3:56pm GMT 17/01/2007

The row over the quality of British train services intensified today as the top rail official said commuters should not expect seats during peak periods.

Dr Mike Mitchell, director general of railways at the Department for Transport, said it was "not realistic" for passengers travelling into London during the commuter peak to expect seats. He said ensuring seats would be too costly, and encouraged communters to travel in off-peak hours instead.

Gerry Doherty, general secretary for Transport Salaried Staffs' Association, the transport union, said "Dr Mitchell is arrogant and out of touch if he thinks this is acceptable for commuters not to get a seat when they are paying £5,000 a year to commute into London.

"It is his job to provide more trains and longer trains so commuters do not have to endure cattle-truck like conditions to get to work. They are paying through the nose for a second class service.

"The Department of Transport should be working towards a first-class service for everyone. The vast majority of commuters simply cannot afford to travel first class in comfort like senior civil servants and MPs."

Dr Mitchell delivered his warning when he appeared before the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee today.

When asked by Richard Bacon, south Norfolk MP, whether commuters paying £4,000 to £5,000 for a season ticket should be expected to stand, Dr Mitchell said: "If you are travelling a relatively short distance, I do not think that it is unacceptable to expect to stand in the peak."

Mr Bacon asked: "What do you call a short distance?"

Dr Mitchell replied: "Perhaps half an hour."

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So don't expect a seat from Reading to London.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 08:03:54 PM by Steve35 » Logged
Chris Street
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Re: Dft boss shows his true colours
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2007, 10:30:31 PM »

Quote
Mr Bacon asked: "What do you call a short distance?"

Dr Mitchell replied: "Perhaps half an hour."

That shocks me. I wouldn't be able to stand on a train for half an hour. Standing on a bus for 20 minutes is hard with all the stopping and starting, but standing on a train doing 125mph for me is unacceptable... especially for people who may NEED to sit down
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Steve Bray
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Re: Dft boss shows his true colours
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2007, 12:37:58 PM »

And we all know which esteemed Passenger Transport provider Dr Mitchell worked for, before moving to the DfT!!!
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bubblecat
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Re: Dft boss shows his true colours
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 09:06:49 PM »

Surely not First Great Western?

LOL!

The thing is - it's not just standing, it's crammed standing. I've actually heard this from a few people - "well, people on the tube do it, so what's the problem?"

The problem is half an hour in crammed conditions leads to people fainting. Not to mention the general stress that it causes, and the unfairness of those standing in those conditions paying the same as those sitting down.

It seems to me that there has never been a policy of comfortable transport in this country - although, looking at rail travel of the past, it looks pretty lovely to me.
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Lee
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Re: Dft boss shows his true colours
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2007, 11:17:35 AM »

The link below contains more on this.
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2007/01/commuters_cant_all_sit_down_sa.html#more

Apparently , "Dr Mitchell walked to work during the week and bought a standard rail ticket at weekends." & "FGW has agreed to bring six to eight carriages out of storage. However, it said that they would operate for a limited period."

"The company said that it was creating an extra 8,000 seats a day on its services but admitted that most of the increase would come from squeezing more seats on to existing trains. The number of tables will be reduced by more than half and passengers will have less legroom."

Tom Harris supported Dr Mitchell yesterday. He said: “It’s not realistic that passengers get a seat for every journey.” He said that trains might be lengthened “in the long term”, but refused to give any date , and would not rule out further above-inflation fare increases.
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Graham Ellis
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Re: Dft boss shows his true colours
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2007, 06:49:42 AM »

I've had some quite long discussions on the understanding of overcrowding on trains - I'm told that many people people get confused between "mean", "median" and "maximum".

It works like this (underground / North London Line example).   99 passengers have to stand during a journey.
50 of them stand for just one stop - 3 minutes
25 stand for two stops - 6 minutes
10 stand for 3 stops - 9 minutes
5 for 12 minutes
5 for 15 minutes
3 for 18 minutes.
1 for 21 minutes

That's a median standing time of just 3 minutes.  Excellent?  No quite - the median may be 3, but the average (mean)  is over 6 minutes and the maximum is 21 minutes.  I'm told (good source) that the spread I've quoted there is pretty typical.

If Dr Mitchell is allowing for a maximum of 30 minutes then the average (mean) should be a lot lower. If he's allowing for a mean or (worse) median of 30 minutes, then he's advocating some very long stands indeed ... and I recall seeing a post somewhere - let's see here about standing all the way from London to Plymouth

Yesterday's 15:30 from Cardiff - 16:50 from Trowbridge - left Trowbridge with over 2 dozen people still standing. If they had got on at Bristol, they would have been out of the 30 minute limit by Westbury, and that's hardly the peak service either.
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